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WHY MAGA IS OBSESSED WITH EPSTEIN − AND WHY THE FILES ARE UNLIKELY
TO DENT LOYALTY TO TRUMP  
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Alex Hinton
November 18, 2025
The Conversation
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_ The Conversation’s politics editor, Naomi Schalit, talked with
scholar Alex Hinton, who has studied MAGA for years, about Make
America Great Again Republicans’ sustained interest in the case of
accused child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. _

MAGA red hats are lined up on a cloth-covered table. MAGA hats are
placed on a table at an election night party in West Palm Beach, Fla.,
on Nov. 5, 2024., Ricky Carioti/The Washington Post via Getty Images

 

 

_With the __latest shift by President Donald Trump_
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on releasing the Epstein files held by the U.S. Department of Justice
– __he’s now for it after being against it after being for it_
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– the MAGA base may finally get to view the documents it’s long
wanted to see. On the afternoon of Nov. 18, 2025, the House voted
overwhelmingly to seek release of the files, with __only one
Republican voting against the measure_
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The Conversation’s politics editor, Naomi Schalit, talked with
scholar Alex Hinton, __who has studied MAGA for years_
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Again Republicans’ sustained interest in the case of accused child
sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. Hinton explains how MAGA’s interest
in the case fits into what he knows about the group of die-hard Trump
supporters._

NAOMI SCHALIT: YOU ARE AN EXPERT ON MAGA. HOW DO YOU LEARN WHAT YOU
KNOW ABOUT MAGA?

Alex Hinton: I’m a cultural anthropologist
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We go where the people we’re studying live, act, talk. We observe
and sort of hang out and see what happens. We listen and then we
unpack themes. We try and understand the meaning systems that
undergird whatever group we’re studying. And then, of course,
there’s interviewing.

[A man in a suit with a crowd behind him stands at a
microphone-covered lectern that has a sign 'EPSTEIN FILES TRANSPARENCY
ACT' written on it.]
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U.S. Rep. Thomas Massie, a Texas Republican, speaks at a press
conference alongside alleged victims of Jeffrey Epstein at the U.S.
Capitol on Sept. 3, 2025. Bryan Dozier/Middle East Images via AFP,
Getty Images
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IT APPEARS THAT MAGA, TRUMP’S CORE SUPPORTERS, ARE VERY CONCERNED
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ABOUT VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE EPSTEIN STORY
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INCLUDING THE RELEASE OF DOCUMENTS THAT ARE IN THE POSSESSION OF THE
U.S. GOVERNMENT. ARE THEY, IN FACT, CONCERNED ABOUT THIS?

The answer is yes, but there’s also a sort of “no” implicit,
too. We need to back up and think, first of all, what is MAGA.

I think of it as what we call in anthropology a nativist movement, a
foregrounding of the people in the land. And this is where you get
America First discourse
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It’s also xenophobic, meaning that there’s a fear of outsiders,
invaders coming in. It’s populist, so it’s something that’s sort
of for the people.

Tucker Carlson interviewed Marjorie Taylor Greene
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and he said, “I’m going to go over the five pillars of MAGA.”
Those were America First, this is absolutely central. Borders was the
second. You’ve got to secure the borders. The third was globalist
antipathy, or a recognition that globalization has failed. Another one
was free speech, and another one he mentioned was no more foreign
wars. And I would add into that an emphasis on “we the people”
versus elites.

Each of those is interwoven with a key dynamic to MAGA, which is
conspiracy theory
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And those conspiracy theories are usually anti-elite, going back to we
the people.

If you look at Epstein, he’s where many of the conspiracy theories
converge [[link removed]]: Stop the
Steal [[link removed]], The Big Lie
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lawfare
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deep state
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replacement theory
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Epstein kind of hits all of these, that there’s this elite cabal
that’s orchestrating things that ultimately are against the
interests of we the people, with a sort of antisemitic strain to this.
And in particular, if we go back to Pizzagate in 2016
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this conspiracy theory that there were these Democratic elitists who
were, you know, demonic forces who were sex trafficking, and lo and
behold, here’s Epstein doing precisely that.

THERE’S KIND OF A BUCKET OF THESE THINGS, AND EPSTEIN IS MORE IN IT
THAN NOT IN IT?

He’s all over it. He’s been there, you know, from the beginning,
because he’s elite and they believe he’s doing sex trafficking.
And then there’s a suspicion of the deep state, of the government,
and this means cover-ups. What was MAGA promised? Trump said, we’re
going to give you the goods
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right? Kash Patel, Pam Bondi, everyone said
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we’re going to tell you this stuff. And it sure smacks of a
cover-up, if you just look at it.

But the bottom line is there’s a realization among many people in
MAGA that you’ve got to stay with Trump. It’s too much to say
there is no MAGA without Trump. There’s certainly no Trumpism
without Trump, but MAGA without Trump would be like the tea party.
It’ll just sort of fade away without Trump.

People in MAGA are supporting Trump
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more than more mainstream Republicans on this. So I don’t think
there’s going to be a break over this, but it certainly adds strain.
And you can see in the current moment that Trump is under some strain.

[A blond woman in a red hat speaks at a microphone while a man in a
suit stands behind her, with American flags behind him.]
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President Donald Trump and U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, a
longtime supporter, have split over the Epstein files release. Elijah
Nouvelage/AFP Getty Images
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THE BREAK THAT WE ARE SEEING IS TRUMP BREAKING WITH ONE OF HIS LEADING
MAGA SUPPORTERS, MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, NOT THE MAGA SUPPORTER
BREAKING WITH TRUMP.

With Greene, sometimes it’s like a yo-yo in a relationship with
Trump. You fall apart, you have tension, and then you sort of get
back. Elon Musk was a little bit like that
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You have this breakup, and now she’s sort of backtracking like Elon
Musk did. I don’t think what is happening is indicative of a larger
fracturing that’s going to take place with MAGA.

IT SEEMS THAT TRUMP DID HIS ABOUT-FACE ON RELEASING THE DOCUMENTS SO
THAT MAGA DOESN’T HAVE TO BREAK WITH HIM.

It’s absolutely true. He’s incredible at taking any story and
turning it in his direction. He’s sort of like a chess player,
unless he blurts something out. He’s a couple of moves ahead of
wherever, whatever’s running, and so in a way we’re always behind,
and he knows where we are. It’s incredible that he’s able to do
this.

There’s one other thing about MAGA. I think of it as “don’t
cross the boss.” It’s this sort of overzealous love of Trump that
has to be expressed, and literally no one ever crosses the boss in
these contexts. You toe the line, and if you go against the line, you
know what happened to Marjorie Taylor Greene, there’s the threat
Trump is going to disown you. You’re going to get primaried
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Trump has probably made a brilliant strategic move, which is suddenly
to say, “I’m all for releasing it. It’s actually the Democrats
who are these evil elites, and now we’re going to investigate Bill
Clinton and all these other Democrats.” He takes over the narrative,
he knows how to do it, and it’s intentional. Whoever says Trump is
not charismatic, he doesn’t make sense – Trump is highly
charismatic. He can move a crowd. He knows what he’s doing. Never
underestimate him.

DOES MAGA CARE ABOUT GIRLS WHO WERE SEXUALLY ABUSED?

There is concern, you know, especially among the devout Christians in
MAGA, for whom sex trafficking is a huge issue.

I think if you look at sort of notions of Christian morality, it also
goes to notions of sort of innocence, being afflicted by demonic
forces. And it’s an attack on we the people by those elites; it’s
a violation of rights. I mean, who isn’t horrified by the idea of
sex trafficking? But again, especially in the Christian circles, this
is a huge issue.

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Alex Hinton 
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Distinguished Professor of Anthropology; Director, Center for the
Study of Genocide and Human Rights, Rutgers University - Newark

* MAGA; Donald Trump; Epstein Files; Child Sex Trafficing;
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